30 Years of Financial Advice: Scott Carson's Tips and Lessons

Speaker 1 (00:00):

<silence> Welcome everyone to the Retirement Power Hour. My name is Joe Allaria, and this is episode 32. I'm excited for today's episode as I'm going to be interviewing fellow wealth advisor and senior wealth advisor here at Carson Allaria Wealth Management Scott Carson, about lessons he has learned over his 30 plus year career. So stay tuned for that because I'm sure we're gonna have a lot of very, very good important lessons to come. But first, again, don't forget to go to retirement power hour podcast.com. We have all of our past shows on there. That's where you can submit your questions. You can type your question in. We may read it on a future show, or you can click the button that says, work with me and schedule an introductory call with us to see if we can help you or answer your specific questions. And with that, I wanna read the bio of our guests, Scott Carson.

Speaker 1 (00:48):

Scott and I have worked together for nearly 10 years, but his industry experience goes back further, much further beyond that. Scott began his financial planning career with IDS in 1989, that's an American Express company, and he was doing financial planning at IDS, and that was after spending five years as a commercial banker with MidAmerica Banks. And Citigroup Scott was then a partner at Pines Financial Group before founding Meridian Financial Group in 1999, where he began to build his own client base for over 15 years. And then in 2017, he and I and Mark Allaria co-founded Carson Allaria Wealth Management, where Scott continues to serve his clients to this day. Scott, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (01:43):

Glad to be here, Joe.

Speaker 1 (01:44):

Always enjoy having you on Scott. And today we're gonna be serving a little bit of a dual purpose. We've been, uh, uncovering some of our employees backgrounds and, and diving deeper and spotlighting, I should say. And you are one of the first, and I thought, if we're gonna do that, we might as well make this part of our podcast and just talk about, as we, as we go through your experience and what you're doing today, talk about all the lessons that you've learned along the way. So, again, appreciate you being here, <laugh>. And, uh, I, I always look at, when I read your bio, of course, I, I've heard, heard it before, but it seems like different things stick out to me every, every time. And, and we were just talking about this, so you're more than a 30 plus year veteran. You actually started as a commercial banker. And if I'm doing my math right, it would've been something like 1984 sometime in, in that range

Speaker 2 (02:37):

Around then. Yep.

Speaker 1 (02:38):

Which makes sense based on our conversations, uh, around banking and, and the emphasis and the focus that you have. But then moving over to, to IDS in 1989, and that's, I believe, where you started your financial planning work. Tell us a little bit about that.

Speaker 2 (02:54):

That's correct. Um, it was an interesting time and probably, probably we were one of the pioneers in the area of financial planning. You know, there were a lot of commission-based stockbrokers, insurance agents, et cetera. Yeah. But IDS had a foundation on doing financial planning for clients. So it was, uh, I'll say maybe even revolutionary at the time Sure. That we had to complete a financial plan for a client before we could ever actually enter into any product discussions.

Speaker 1 (03:25):

You know, now we have all of this technology. You know, when we do a financial plan, it's not necessarily even paper anymore. I sometimes will print out an actual booklet that's not too terribly long, because a lot of what we're looking at is on a computer screen. What did your financial plans look like when you were building those out in 1989 or the early nineties?

Speaker 2 (03:51):

Well, it's interesting, Joe. They were probably two inches thick with a lot of information. And unfortunately, they were static, which means they were really only valid and good for the day that you presented it to the client. So very cumbersome, um, and not as clear, not nearly as effective as the plans that were able to produce today for clients.

Speaker 1 (04:15):

What sticks out to you about your experience there at IDS? Like you said you were doing revolutionary work. Was it hard for your clients to grasp the type of work you were doing? I, I figure today it's much easier to get the point across about what financial planning is, but at the time with not very many people doing it, what was that like?

Speaker 2 (04:39):

Well, I, I think things are pretty much the same. Clients wanted to know the same information. How much money do I need to achieve specific goals? The problem was we just couldn't deliver an answer or a response in a quicker timeframe or in a suitable timeframe to make it real meaningful. So things just took longer. And, uh, like I said, with a two or three inch plan and a lot of boilerplate information, uh, not nearly as effective as the information we have to deliver today.

Speaker 1 (05:15):

But it seemed like from the start, and I don't, I don't know if this was what came first here, the chicken or the egg, but were you always convicted that having a plan was important? Or was it just that you happened to be introduced to IDS and you, and you saw it and you thought, wow, this, this makes a lot of sense. People should have a financial plan. What came first in that sequence?

Speaker 2 (05:36):

Well, the IDS way was, you did a plan first. So they were convinced that that was the right way to build a foundation with a client in the relationship. And it's what resonated with me throughout my entire career.

Speaker 1 (05:49):

Well, that, that makes sense. I was fortunate too, early on to, you know, a couple years in start to be exposed to financial planning and wanted to take that road myself, not to just be an investment advisor, to focus on one area, but to look at someone's entire picture to help better answer all the questions that that people have. And then, so spending a few years at IDS, but after that, fast forwarding over to Pines Financial Group and then founding Meridian Financial Group, where you, I guess you would say you crossed over into the independent landscape. If you could just talk a a little bit about the difference from where you were to then going independent and, and what you noticed about that.

Speaker 2 (06:36):

Well, back then, there were a variety of what will we know as broker dealers? Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>, right. Who would seek out people like me to affiliate with them, to offer, unfortunately, commission-based products. That was pretty much all that was available. Not, not all, but, uh, it was the predominant way to go about doing business. Sure. And I just spent a lot of time talking to people in the industry and realized that I wanted to be on the same side of the table as the client, as a fiduciary. And that led me down the path of setting up an independent fee-based advisory practice. Thus started my affiliation with the Pines Financial Group, and then migrated over to Meridian Financial Group.

Speaker 1 (07:20):

In my early days in the industry, which 20 12, 20 13, back in those days, I still remember that narrative of people coming over, advisors switching over from this broker dealer, this product mindset, the RIA concept still not really widespread in, in my view, this is just my personal view at the time, it seemed like the RIA path was still this kind of newer, you know, up and coming type of platform. Not as much this what it is today, I think still maybe not as big as the broker dealer side of the industry, but, uh, much more established today. So I can't imagine back in 1999, and, you know, what, how did your clients receive that? When, when you made that that switch, was it, was it a switch that you basically started building from there? Did you have clients that came over with you? Well,

Speaker 2 (08:22):

Thankfully, just about all my clients followed with me. And I took a huge leap of faith telling people that, uh, you know, we were gonna be a purely fee-based firm, and we were going to surround that with financial planning and that we would always be doing what's in their best interest. Not that we didn't before, but now when you migrate from a registered representative under a broker dealer to a registered investment advisory, uh, and fiduciary in an investment advisor relationship, we were legally bound to do the right things all the time. And I think clients could see that we were doing that for them day in, day out, regardless of their situation.

Speaker 1 (09:08):

At that point, you're able to go into the industry to, to seek out the best investments that, in your view, and, and offer those and advise clients to put their money in those certain investments or strategies as a product salesman, really in the broker dealer world, if I'm a registered representative, that that's a good term for it. 'cause I'm, I'm representing who the company, not the client. I'm, I'm representing, you know, certain list of products where I get paid a commission just like any type of salesman would. And I, I'm not saying there's not a time and a place for that. I just, like you have seen my clients prefer the other route. They, they'd prefer for you to be on the same side of the table. Not to just look at this small selection of investments or products and, and say, well, I don't really care which one you buy 'cause they're all gonna pay me a commission.

Speaker 1 (10:04):

You know, or here, I, I'm only allowed to sell these. And so just as long as you purchase it, and once you're, once you purchase it, my work's done. I got paid, I'm good for a while, I don't have to do any more work. It's, it's much different in our landscape where, uh, there's not that commission when you recommend an investment. So we have the same interest, uh, oftentimes as, as clients do nowadays. So, Scott, I've heard you talk about your first day when you're, you're at Meridian Financial Group. Uh, you had been there for several years. You moved buildings into actually the current building that our office sits today on a different floor. The first day was kind of a unique time in the market. Maybe you can tell us a little bit about that.

Speaker 2 (10:46):

Actually, the first day that I moved in was, um, September 11th and

Speaker 1 (10:57):

2001. Correct.

Speaker 2 (10:58):

2001. We can all remember back that there were planes running into buildings in New York and crashing in fields in Pennsylvania and heading towards the Pentagon. And obviously the market was reacting in a negative fashion. So sure. We took this huge leap of face to move into this fantastic building, enhanced our office space. We were trying to grow staff, and then all of a sudden disaster struck. So it took a little bit of, uh, time and composure to kind of step back and reflect on what was happening that day and add on the phone, started calling clients, just reassuring them that everything was gonna be okay. Markets typically will react in a whipsaw fashion or a knee-jerk fashion when geopolitical things like that happen. Sure. So it was, um, it was rather trying, uh, without a doubt,

Speaker 1 (11:57):

Not too different from retirees that take that leap of faith. And then maybe the market takes a dip for whatever reason. You obviously have that going on with people's individual lives. You dealt with it from a business perspective. You're still here, obviously, you made it through continuing the same type of work, working with clients day in, day out. Obviously, as a founder of Meridian Financial Group and a founder of Carnel Area Wealth Management and a partner at both places, there were a lot of managerial responsibilities that you had. Um, and basically everything just running, running the business, taking care of everything from, from investments to payroll. But the last few years, the final, uh, I guess phase of your evolution has been to just basically focus on dealing with clients, taking a step back in that managerial role and being able to have more of those conversations about investing. And if we could just segue into that, maybe what are some of the most important lessons, not only in the last few years, but in the last 30 years in conversations, stories, pitfalls around investing that you remember that stick out to you, things that you try to impart to your clients today?

Speaker 2 (13:16):

Well, I think if you have the ability to look back over time and understand how things were then, what they look like today, and the experience that you can draw from that is in investing. I don't want it to sound unimportant, but quite honestly, investing becomes a byproduct of a client's financial plan. The financial plan is what actually memorializes what a client wants to achieve in life and when they want to achieve it from there. Thankfully, what I've seen over my career is the focus has been removed from the product, meaning the investment itself, whether it's a stock bond, mutual fund, what have you. And it's now more focused on, okay, uh, this is how much money I need to accumulate. These are the resources I have to do that. Clients now come to us and trust us to say, build me an investment plan that will allow me to accomplish that. And in simple terms, the very best plan that we or any financial advisor can put together for a client is the one that that client will stick with through thick and thin. It's one that they can live with when markets are going up or when they're going down. That's the bottom line that I think is most important over my entire career, is make sure we understand the client's, uh, ability to handle volatility and build a plan that matches that.

Speaker 1 (15:00):

So I agree, I think I've explained this to clients that how can you even put together an investment strategy without doing a plan first? That's like trying to give a prescription without seeing any blood work. I could try, based on your age or, you know, anyone's age, Scott, I could say, well, eh, you're in your sixties, probably high blood pressure, cholesterol medication, you know, I might be right just based on percentages and averages, but it's not gonna be customized without really digging it in and developing that plan and looking at that data first. I guess retirement planning is a pretty complex topic, but what are some of the, you know, lessons you've learned or things that, again, you, you want listeners to watch this video who haven't taken that step yet? As far as retirement planning?

Speaker 2 (15:45):

Yeah. I'd, I'd say there's three key things that I dwell upon when helping clients as they're nearing retirement. Number one, and most importantly, the biggest variable of all is how much money do you need and or want to live the lifestyle that you've either become accustomed to or that you aspire to when you're done working. That's number one. And number two is then knowing and fully understanding where that money is gonna come from to fulfill that need. And then number three, and I can't stress this one enough, and this is what I would call from the psychological side of me, is, what are you gonna do every day? <laugh>? And you'd be surprised, I had this discussion just yesterday with a client, I was talking to the spouse and her comment was, I'm really worried what my husband's gonna do in retirement. You know, people have to stop and think that up to that point, they may be committing 40, 50 plus hours a week away from the home at a job that might be fairly intense, could be stressful. And if that's the case, a lot of those people maybe haven't had the time or opportunity to develop hobbies outside of work. And while they think about things they like to do, they're not really mental, mentally prepared to do them. So that's a huge aspect of planning is what are you gonna do to occupy yourself for those 40 to 50 hours a week that you were spending in your employment prior to that.

Speaker 1 (17:31):

Yeah, absolutely. And that's a not really a financial question. So you're, you're, you're a financial advisor, you're, you know, you're coming up with investment strategies, retirement planning, but, but you're talking to clients about something completely non-financial, which is simply how they're gonna spend their time.

Speaker 2 (17:48):

Well, quite honestly, Joe, I've been blessed to work with people that almost all of them have won the financial game, which means they've accumulated enough resources, or they'll have other sources of income that will provide them an ample income to do whatever it is they want. But I coach them time and time again on what will you physically do with yourself each and every day to make sure that you are mentally and emotionally engaged and stimulated.

Speaker 1 (18:22):

Yeah. It's not all about the financial side. People work very hard. They save a lot of money. And I agree. Many of our clients come to us. They've done that, that heavy lifting. They've, they've done a great job saving. The only thing we can do now is screw it up. You know, we just have to maintain what we've, what you've done, but as well as the emotional or psychological side and have some, uh, reason to get up and something that gives you a feeling of purpose and accomplishment. When you're counseling people about retirement planning, how do you understand or how do you know when it's okay to take more risk or for them to retire sooner or spend more or gift more? These are a lot of different decisions that happen during someone's retirement when you're counseling them. How do you go about doing that?

Speaker 2 (19:03):

Well, actually, it's pretty straightforward, Joe. And I've said this time and time again, math is the only thing in the world that doesn't lie. So math drives a lot of what we do for clients. And when we illustrate a financial plan, as you know, I've maintained a philosophy of under-promising and over-delivering my entire career. What does that mean? It means utilizing some very conservative assumptions in their planning, uh, but then using maybe some very aggressive assumptions on what they might spend or do. So it is interesting these days that I spend the majority of my time counseling people on spending or gifting their money, and it's because they've been very successful on the accumulation side. And we can show them, again, under very conservative assumptions that it's likely they will leave this earth with an excess accumulation of assets. So what happens at that point in time?

Speaker 2 (20:12):

Who gets 'em? Where does it go? Well, typically it's gonna be left of their heirs, but through a lot of what I'll call, um, more interpersonal counseling, I try to encourage people to maybe begin gifting strategies sooner. Being able to watch their kids, right, enjoy some of the fruits of their labor while they need money. It might be to take a step up into a bigger home. It might be helping their grandkids out with secondary education. It could be a whole host of things. You know, I, I'm constantly telling people, look, if you don't fly first class when you travel, your kids will. So many of them are taking that to heart and they're starting to do those things.

Speaker 1 (20:59):

So you spend most of your conversations, counseling people to spend more rather than, I, I think people assume, we as advisors are telling people, invest more, invest more, invest more. You're saying, Hey, you need to spend more. You need to do more. You need to give more.

Speaker 2 (21:16):

I spent an inordinate amount of time on that very subject, and it's probably been the most gratifying thing in my career, is having people call me up and tell me about a wonderful vacation they just took. And oh, by the way, we flew first class. We stayed in a phenomenal hotel that we probably would not have had it not been for you telling us that we could truly afford it. Yeah. I've got clients doing all sorts of things like that. And again, that's pretty fulfilling personally, to know that we help them through the accumulation phase, and now we're helping them equally as much, if not more, through the decumulation phase.

Speaker 1 (21:57):

And that word fulfilling is a key word, because it's fulfilling for us to help them find and do things that are fulfilling for them. And it is different for different people. Some people wanna travel more, some people would like to gift more. But it brings to mind a, a client conversation that I had one time when my client said, we really don't want to die with a bunch of money in our portfolios. They had two sons and you know, we had a number, something like 3 million or something like that, that they, they were projected to have at the end of life. And again, that was under conservative assumptions, as you said. And I just made that point to them, if you don't do something different, that's exactly what's gonna happen. And of course, I've taken all those cues from you and learning your process over the years, so I've got to have those same fun conversations of what things could you do that would add more fulfillment to your retirement or just to your life in general. But you also brought up estate planning a bit. You know, if the money doesn't get used by our clients, it's going to eventually end up with the kids. But it's not always just a simple easy process. If things aren't set up properly, if they don't have an estate plan, there could be tax implications. Have there been any stories or specific situations or things that you've noticed over the years or things haven't been done properly? Or I guess what are you, what would you leave to our listeners, our clients, around that estate planning topic?

Speaker 2 (23:31):

What's interesting you bring that up, I would have, I would say that over my career I've made estate planning a primary emphasis almost above all else. Why? Because I encountered a few situations where clients' parents either passed or were forced to go into nursing homes, and it took us an inordinate amount of time to figure out where all those assets were at, how they were titled how they were gonna get passed on one specific client. I think I documented over a hundred hours worth of my time helping them to get his father's affairs in order after he was put in a nursing home. So I, I go back a long way, and there was a commercial many, many, many years ago from the Amco Transmission Group and basically said, look, you can pay us now by putting good oil in your car on a regular interval, or you can pay us later to replace the transmission.

Speaker 2 (24:40):

So I compare that to estate planning, and it's not so much paying us, but helping us get you engaged with an attorney to develop a good estate plan properly, title all the assets, earmark them to go where you want them to go, so that when that times comes and it will come, the estate is settled, smoothly assets go to the intended beneficiaries with the least amount of friction. When I say friction, I mean cost. Right. And that's primarily expenses, which if we do it right, we can forego probate expenses, attorney time, and if we do it right, we can often avoid estate taxes, whether it be at the federal level or the state level. Estate planning is probably one of the most misunderstood concepts to the consumers or clients that we work with. They just don't understand what a will actually does, how a trust fits into their situation, making sure they have powers of attorney in place for people to manage property items or healthcare should those situations come up. So I think there's probably been the most satisfaction of people coming to us and saying, I can't thank you enough for stepping kind of out of the box away from just the investments in retirement planning and helping us get this in order for our own peace of mind and for our kids' peace of mind.

Speaker 1 (26:13):

Absolutely. And you've started that model of including that as part of our services, helping not to give legal advice, but to assist, to facilitate. 'cause as you said, it's about reducing expenses and also taxes and to simply have the money go where is intended to go? I know clients many times are, it's really not the fault of clients if I had to fault someone. When attorneys draft documents, a lot of times, like you've pointed out, they may give a letter and say, here's all the things you have to go do. They don't always follow through on even funding a trust, for example, they, they draft this beautiful document and then they don't change the titling on assets so that the trust actually owns it, so that the trust is actually in that case not doing anything. And but as misunderstood as estate planning is, I think tax planning is maybe equally as misunderstood for many clients. I think clients understand it's important, but the missed opportunities. And that, that kind of leads to my next question about, you know, that area where, whether it's missed opportunities, mistakes, pitfalls, coordination, or lack thereof. What are the the biggest things in tax planning that you've seen that, uh, you'd like to share with, with our listeners?

Speaker 2 (27:29):

When we help people with investments, there's basically those investments that we consider as taxable today, which means clients pay taxes as they go on dividends, interest, capital gains, et cetera. There are tax deferred, which can be qualified plans, 4 0 1 Ks, 4 0 3 B, simple IRAs, all those things, right? Taxes deferred today, gonna get paid in the future. And then there are those assets that are truly, or strategies that are truly tax free. Looking at those three categories and explaining them to clients as to how they fit in their situation is critically important. 'cause at the end of the day, it's not about what we earn, it's about what we get to keep after taxes.

Speaker 1 (28:16):

Well, as I hear you talk about all, all of those strategies, it just continues to remind me, what I've always taken from you is it's, it's not always, it's not one area that we're looking at. It's, it's always the big picture.

Speaker 2 (28:28):

The one word that best describes the way we manage a client relationship is holistic. Taking a look at the big picture and understanding all the components that exist within their personal lives and knowing how to, uh, make sure the right hand knows what the left hand is doing if we're working with other advisors, or just to make sure we're incorporating tax planning, estate planning, investment planning, retirement planning, possibly gifting all within the scope of that plan.

Speaker 1 (29:00):

And of course, you're, you're still doing that on a day-to-day basis for your clients. What have you enjoyed most over the years about working with families, with individuals and counseling them and giving them that sort of advice?

Speaker 2 (29:16):

Well, Joe, again, probably the greatest fulfillment has been able to watch things go full circle. And what I mean is, I can look back on countless relationships when they began, and they might've began with, uh, modest amounts of resources. But over the years, helping and counseling them through the accumulation phase of their life, watching them transition to retirement, watching them enjoy the fruits of their labor, watching them get their own personal satisfaction out of either making gifts to their kids or to charity. And to watch them know that they've developed an a, a plan, a family plan to where assets are protected from unwanted sources such as the federal or state governments, and knowing that their kids and or grandkids are gonna be the benefactors of their life's work.

Speaker 1 (30:23):

And it's that type of work that makes us think that we could probably do this for a long time, as I'm sure you've, you've thought you certainly haven't, uh, slowed down very much over the last few years. Is it more enjoyable now to just focus in on your client relationships?

Speaker 2 (30:41):

So, Joe, in all honesty, when you are wearing all the hats as the managing partner, whatever of the firm, you know, firsthand that there are a lot of distractions. Sure. And there are things that you have to do operationally to make a business work. In all honesty, I don't miss any of that. Uh, I enjoy probably the ability to focus more intently on client relationships. Having eliminated all those distractions has probably made my day-to-day activity more fulfilling in a one-on-one situation with the clients that I still help.

Speaker 1 (31:28):

I can definitely sense that, of course, you, you paid your dues and put many more years in, uh, in that role. But I can relate to a degree, having been in that for the, the past few years, uh, it's, it's always more fun to be working with clients face-to-face and doing the planning and helping them, helping someone to achieve something. It's maybe the coach in me a little bit, being a former athlete, I love coaching people, helping people get better, helping them accomplish a goal that's, that's of course really, really fun. But as you've been more remote in terms of working with clients or, you know, even communicating with us, again, you've been doing that and still serving clients. And I just wanted to mention you are a completely integral role for us as you've always been, just setting the example. And I know I owe a lot to you and, and the rest of us here just for following the model. I mean, you, you set the model, it was very easy for us. We just learned it, followed it, and it's, it's gone very, very well. Clients, uh, obviously, uh, get a lot of value out of it, and I know we, we have you to thank for that, so, well,

Speaker 2 (32:38):

Thank, thank you for the kind words. It's never, uh, always easy passing the torch, but in this particular case, I would say it's been about as seamless as it could have been, and it's been very rewarding to watch the, uh, younger people in the firm grow and get better. And if I was able to play a part in that, well then, uh, that makes me feel great as well.

Speaker 1 (33:04):

And we're happy to have you for years and years and years and years to come. Correct.

Speaker 2 (33:11):

Um, you know what, as of right now, I have no plans on stopping doing what I'm doing. Right? Absolutely. As long as I continue to get enjoyment out of it and clients still feel as though I bring value to their personal situation, uh, I could see doing this for a while longer.

Speaker 1 (33:29):

Yeah, absolutely. We're of course, very involved in our clients personal lives, their families. I didn't ask you, but how many years ago now you became Grandpa Scott. How many years was it and how many grandkids are we up to at this point?

Speaker 2 (33:43):

So, uh, our oldest granddaughter is, uh, 10, so they're ten six and around 22 months and 10 months. So four granddaughters right now.

Speaker 1 (33:58):

Do you enjoy being a grandparent? Uh, more than a parent is like, I hear <laugh>.

Speaker 2 (34:02):

It's certainly different and certainly easier because we always get to give them back at the end of the day, and then it, it's their challenge to deal with them from that point forward. So Ken and I are actually flying to Atlanta tonight to watch two of our granddaughters for the next week while our kids take a little vacation. So, uh, we're looking forward to it. It's like a tag team match when you've got two little ones. Oh, yeah. And, uh, we've gotten quite good at it

Speaker 1 (34:29):

As someone who was just up, uh, from about three a 3:00 AM to 7:00 AM this morning with a young baby. Yep. Uh, yes. It, it can be a challenge at times. So we appreciate our grandparents, you know, or my, our parents. Sure. And grandma, grandpa's helping out. Sure. Well, again, uh, Scott, thanks for the time and allowing me to, uh, to cover a broad range of topics as well, uh, business and, and personal too. We'll hope to of course, have you back, uh, for another episode in the future. All right. So I hope you enjoyed that interview with Scott Carson. Again, Scott has been an integral part in everything that we've built here at Carson Allaria Wealth Management. So many good lessons. If you heard something that Scott said or something that we talked about from a financial perspective and you have more questions and you're wondering if you're taking full advantage of everything you can from a tax perspective or if you're invested properly, if you can retire on time, go to retirement power hour podcast.com, click work with me, schedule that introductory call, get on the phone with us, we'll have a conversation and we will see if we can help you see if we're a good fit to help and possibly give you a complimentary retirement analysis where we can answer a lot of those questions.

Speaker 1 (35:43):

You can also leave us a review at Google, at Spotify, at On Apple, on YouTube if you found this video to be helpful. We would certainly appreciate that. Don't forget to join us next time on The Retirement Power Hour, where we help listeners best wiser and retire better. Take care.