Creating Your Retirement Identity w/ Wendy Green

Speaker 1 (00:00):

Welcome, everybody to the Retirement Power Hour podcast. My name is Joe Allaria. This is episode 16, and I'm gonna be joined today by Wendy Green. Wendy is the founder and the host of the Hey Boomer podcast. She is also a transitions coach, focusing mainly in the transition from working to retirement. Wendy, thank you so much for coming on the show and talking with me today,

Speaker 2 (00:25):

Joe, I'm so glad to be here, and thanks for inviting me, <laugh>.

Speaker 1 (00:29):

Well, I, I'm looking forward to this topic. It's, it's not one that is extremely financial in nature, and, and I like to mix it up on our show, and we talk about financial strategies quite often, but we also talk about the lifestyle part of retirement. Why? Because that's a huge part of retiring better. It's not all money, it's not all financial. So we are gonna talk today, Wendy, about creating your identity in retirement. Love that. And as I'm interested to hear your viewpoint, because I know that you talk to a ton of people, uh, you have had sort of a transition yourself, you know, but you speak, you've spoken to a lot of people that have gone through this transition working to retirement or working to the next phase, which is maybe a better term, and we'll, we'll get into that here in a, in a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:20):

I've also seen this working with people that are planning for retirement from a financial point of view, and they, at times do struggle to, to find their feet as they, as they hit that new phase. But I don't wanna take away our thunder, so we'll get into it in just a second. For those out there listening, watching, if you want to hear the entire episode, you have to go to Spotify, go to Apple, go to retirement power hour podcast.com. If you're watching this on YouTube, this is just the video portion, just the interview portion, so you can catch the whole episode at Apple Spotify or retirement power hour podcast.com. Wendy, the first question I have for you, what is the biggest misconception about transitioning to retirement?

Speaker 2 (02:06):

Joe, I'm glad you asked that, and I'm glad we're focusing on identity, because that is certainly one of my favorite areas to talk about. But I think what happens is we've been sold this idea that retirement means a complete life of leisure. And, and a lot of us, that's what we've looked forward to. You know, we are burned out by the time we're done with 40, 50 years of work, we just want leisure. And those first couple of weeks, maybe the first couple of months of having time with no alarm clock going off, and no endless meetings and all these deadlines and all this stuff, we're like, oh, this is fabulous. And then we hit that time where we're saying, oh my gosh, today is like yesterday, which was like the day before. And what am I gonna do today? Yeah. You know, I've played golf every day, or I've visited my grandkids.

Speaker 2 (03:05):

I've done all these things, but we're so used to having a routine, a schedule, you know, things that make us feel useful and meaningful. And without that, it starts to seem like the days are getting longer and longer. We are getting more and more less vibrant. We are feeling like we're, you know, where is our purpose? Why are we getting up in the morning? Oh, I could sleep another couple of hours. That's not the life we wanna live for the next 20 or 30 years. So I think the misconception is, oh my gosh, this is gonna be great. All this leisure time. And yes, we don't know how to just do leisure.

Speaker 1 (03:51):

Right? 100%. Um, I've said this on our podcast, I like to play golf, but I can't imagine, you know, playing golf every single day of the week for eight hours a day, you know, or at least five days a week for eight hours a day. My body could not hold up to that pace. And it's something I really like to do, but there's gotta be something that fills the rest of that time. I, I, I can already see that in my own life, but I also sit across from retirees all the time. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And I often ask them before you, or I encourage 'em before you retire, make sure you have a plan for what you're gonna do every day. Because hunting, fishing, golfing, a lot of times it's the men that, you know, we have these hobbies and, and I speak with, you know, it goes, it goes both ways. But, uh, if when grandkids are involved, that that sometimes is, takes up a lot of time as well, but the hobbies don't, don't generally take up

Speaker 2 (04:55):

Well, and you know what's true also, Joe is a lot of times people that have had really high stress, high powered careers, they didn't have time for hobbies. No. And so when they, you know, maybe they played golf because that was the business thing to do, you know, you had meetings on the golf course, but they don't know what to do. They don't have those hobbies and interests that, you know, you spoke of. And so it's a whole discovery of what they left behind, what they might be interested in, what they could get involved in now.

Speaker 1 (05:31):

Right. Yeah. It's a whole new, whole new set of options that, that we have to deal with whenever we transition to, I say retirement offline. You, you kind of mentioned you didn't like to use that word. And I'm going to, I'm gonna dovetail off for, for a moment and, and ask you to elaborate on that if you could.

Speaker 2 (05:51):

So the dictionary definition of retirement means withdrawal when you get old. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So I have a problem with both of that. <laugh> <laugh>, you know, because, um, full disclosure, I'm 69. Um, I don't think I'm old. I don't feel old. We, I'm certainly older, which is where all of us are heading, if we're lucky, is to be older. But the, you know, when you think about old, you think about decrepit, you think about unable and run down, and then withdrawal. Like, no, I still have a lot to contribute to society, to my family, to my neighborhood, my community. So I'm not withdrawing. I'm totally engaging. And the the cool thing is, at this stage in our lives, when we're not fully committed to a career, we can engage so much more because we have the time and the flexibility.

Speaker 1 (06:48):

Sure. Absolutely. I agree a hundred percent. So I wanna, I wanna lead into the, to the next question, which is, you know, we're talking about identity. And why do some people find themselves in an identity crisis when they retire or when they transition from out of their career to the next phase?

Speaker 2 (07:12):

Well, if you think about it, all our lives, we've had our roles defined for us, our identity defined for us, right? When we were little kids, our identity was, we were our parents', children, we may have been siblings, we were students in school. Maybe we were an athlete or a performer. We move into the work world and, you know, we're then defined by our titles, right? So if someone says to you, what do you do? You're saying, well, I'm an accountant, or I'm a podcast host, or I'm a, you know, I'm a performer, I'm an HR professional, or whatever. You define yourself by your title,

Speaker 1 (07:55):

Right?

Speaker 2 (07:55):

And suddenly the title is gone.

Speaker 1 (07:58):

Yes.

Speaker 2 (07:59):

And when you meet people out in public and they don't know you're retired, they may say, well, what do you do? And we interpret that to mean who are you? And that's where the identity crisis comes in, because who am I now that I'm not my title?

Speaker 1 (08:17):

Sure.

Speaker 2 (08:18):

Who am I now? And so that's a big time of reflection and struggle to figure out, you know, and when I do this with my group in the group coaching, they, they struggle, you know? Well, I, um, uh, I guess I'm a spouse or a parent. Yeah. Okay, so what else? And they just, they get stuck.

Speaker 1 (08:44):

Yep.

Speaker 2 (08:45):

They get stuck. Who else am I,

Speaker 1 (08:48):

I, I'm guilty of this. I go meet someone new, Hey, John, how you doing? I'm Joe, what do you do? You know?

Speaker 2 (08:56):

Right, right.

Speaker 1 (08:57):

And that's, I don't know why, but that's just one of the first questions that we ask. It's probably because it's just kind of surface level. If I met someone for the first time and I said, Hey, hey, John, how you doing? I'm, Joe, what are your most important life values? You know, <laugh> people would,

Speaker 2 (09:12):

I would look at you like,

Speaker 1 (09:14):

Who are you really, John <laugh>? You know? Um,

Speaker 2 (09:17):

That would be a great question to ask, though. Can you imagine doing that at a networking?

Speaker 1 (09:21):

It would be a fantastic question. <laugh>. I mean, if you wanna get to know someone, you should probably ask that, and not what they do. But we're so accustomed to, um, you know, Hey, hey, stand up. Introduce yourself. Oh, okay. I'm, I'm Joe. I, I'm from Glen Carbon Illinois. I'm a financial advisor. Like that, that would probably be, you know,

Speaker 2 (09:38):

Exactly. Exactly.

Speaker 1 (09:39):

I have, I'm married, I have two kids, you know, that. And I'm a financial advisor.

Speaker 2 (09:43):

That's, and, and you know what, I'm, I'm guilty of it too now because I, I know that the people, some of the people I'm meeting are retired, and what do I ask? What did you do <laugh>? So, still Exactly, you know, we're still looking for that right. Label to put on ourselves, and it's so much more than that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:04):

It's not who we are, but I know I've seen it a lot when people wake up every day, they go to their job and, you know, they feel like they're needed at that job. And it does become a little bit of your identity in a way, but it's certainly not the entire, you know, should, shouldn't be your entire identity. But do you have any, any stories that, have you seen this happen yourself? That, you know, someone has, it's just been so evident that they've retired and it's almost that they lose sense of, of who they are? Do you see this?

Speaker 2 (10:43):

I see it all the time. I see it all the time. Um, one story that comes to mind is, uh, a man that I was working with who, uh, was an engineer, that was his role. He also defined himself as a problem solver, you know, as, uh, as an engineering manager, problems would come up. And he was really good at figuring out solutions. And so when we started meeting his, his ideas initially were, well, I'm gonna stay involved in business. You know, maybe I'll be on some boards, um, maybe I'll mentor business owners, or up and coming, um, young people in the engineering field. And as we worked through it, he started to realize, you know, that's not really what I wanna do. That's what I've been doing.

Speaker 1 (11:34):

Do you see any sort of pattern there? Or is it, does it happen with both men and women, where sometimes that identity is just really wrapped up in the career?

Speaker 2 (11:44):

I think I do see it in both men and women, Joe. Um, and I think part of it is your personality type. Yeah. You know, are you a driver type of a personality? Um, part of it is the types of roles that women have traditionally had may not have been as self-identifying, but more so they are now, you see a lot more women in senior leadership roles.

Speaker 1 (12:12):

Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (12:13):

And, you know, they've worked hard to get there. Sure. And, and giving that up, um, doesn't come easy for either men or women, uh, because it's, it's, it's a part of your ego sense too. And so being able to able find something else that makes you feel good about yourself and gives you that sense of meaning, I think is, is important.

Speaker 1 (12:37):

Yes. And I certainly have seen it. I've got clients who are, are business owners who are, uh, executives and large corporations, and absolutely. I would imagine for, for them, it's gonna be more challenging to, to switch that off. And that kind of leads into my next question is, I think one thing that we like as human beings is to feel relevant, to feel like someone needs me, feel like someone's counting on me so I can be there for whoever that is. That's counting on me. Well, my employer is counting on me, and I know I'm relevant there. And then when I retire, it's like, I could go do anything I want. No one needs me to be anywhere at any certain time, and I all of a sudden don't feel so relevant. Do you think that, I talk about that a little bit, is that, do you hear that when you, when you counsel people, when you coach people through that transition?

Speaker 2 (13:32):

So let me tell you a story, a very personal story, um, with my husband. He was in the senior executive service in Washington, DC with the Department of Energy, um, responsible for safety, um, at nuclear power plants, right? Yes. It's a pretty high powered job.

Speaker 1 (13:53):

Sure. Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (13:55):

Um, when he retired, he, he was a hunter. He was a fisherman. I mean, he was so looking forward to that's what he was gonna do. Right. And it wasn't too long before he started to realize he had no friends. Really. I had been the one, you know, bringing in friends, but he had no friends. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. He had nobody calling him that needed him to check on him to ask his opinion on things. And that was really hard for him to take. And unfortunately, he then developed bladder cancer and, um, you know, went through all the treatments. But basically, Joe, he had come to this mindset that his life wasn't worth anything anymore. Yeah. Nobody needed him. Nobody was, you know, I mean, I did <laugh>, I was trying to, come on, we've got this, let's go. But

Speaker 1 (15:02):

Yeah,

Speaker 2 (15:03):

He, um, he pretty much gave up at that point. And I think that's a big reason I do the work I do, because seeing his loss of relevance, seeing his loss of meaning, and you can't replace that for another person just because you love them. No. You know, they have to take the initiative to find their own way and to look inside and, and to do the work to get to that sense of relevance and meaning again. And, and he just wasn't able to do that.

Speaker 1 (15:35):

Wow.

Speaker 2 (15:36):

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:37):

Yeah. And that, these are, these are deep things to think about. Whenever I challenge clients, we talk about what are you gonna do when you retire, and what are you gonna do with all this money? And what is gonna provide you the most retirement fulfillment? These are not easy questions. They're not, some people, I mean, some people, uh, very few, I would say the minority are able to rattle off an answer re really quickly, I wanna do this, this, this. And, you know, it usually doesn't happen that way. It's a period of exploration, which is why I'm sure you would agree that trying to figure, figure out your identity before you retire is pretty important. Mm-Hmm.

Speaker 2 (16:19):

<affirmative>. And I do think there's value to that. Um, and it does take a lot of work. And sometimes we feel so overwhelmed with all the responsibilities that we have with work and family, and, you know, all the other obligations that come along with that, that, that we haven't taken the time. It's nice when you can retire to something instead of from something. Mm mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But there's also a philosophy that I follow, um, that was developed by William Bridges. He wrote a book called Transitions. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. He did a lot of work on transitions. And it is that you go through an ending, and then there's what they call the neutral zone, and then there's the new beginnings. And in the neutral zone, that's where, until we retire, we probably never have taken the time to be in that neutral zone. And that's uncomfortable because we're just being, we're kind of sitting in stillness in some sense. We may be walking in nature, we're spending time by ourselves. We're thinking about who am I? Who do I wanna be? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And why do I wanna be that? Not do, but why do I wanna be that? And it's, it's being open to the question and open to the answers that will bring you to that new beginning. Sure. Most of us have never done that before. We, if we lose a job, we're immediately like, where's the next job? You know, if, if something happens, we're immediately like, oh, I gotta find the solution to that.

Speaker 1 (18:01):

Yep.

Speaker 2 (18:01):

The beauty of being in transition is to take that time and, and find those answers for yourselves. 'cause that's really powerful.

Speaker 1 (18:12):

And that's probably the first step, though, in building out sort of a plan. Absolutely. And plans change, don't get me wrong, but we encourage people all the time to do a financial plan, a retirement plan, and we also talk, we have on this show, even we've done a whole show on designing your retirement life, creating a life plan. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> for retirement or a next phase plan, or whatever you wanna call it, but a plan. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Because if you, if you don't, you just floating around your head's in the sand, and chances are you're not gonna optimize the time that you have. Right. You're probably not gonna reach the optimal point of fulfillment or whatever you're trying to reach. So just map out a plan, take some time to think about it, map out a plan. These are the things I'm gonna, I'm gonna fill my time with.

Speaker 1 (19:07):

I think you should ask yourself, what's most important to me? We ask that question where money is related. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, well, where do you want this money to go? What's most important to you? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, do you want your kids to get it? Do you want, are there charitable organizations you want to, to have this money? When do you want to, you know, see your money? Go to those sources. And by the way, uh, I always like to pause at some point in this 'cause we're talking about putting a plan together. We offer a free retirement analysis, a free financial analysis at our website, retirement power hour podcast.com. So if you go there and click work with me and Schedule a Call, we will take you through that process and guide you through it, help you answer those questions. And that's all on the financial side, but it certainly ties into what we're talking about right now.

Speaker 1 (19:53):

So Retirement Power Hour podcast is a place that you can go and do that, but having a plan, can the plans change? Yes. But having it, starting it by just, it is asking a lot of these kind of, a lot of these tough questions. And you know what, it's no different than a financial plan, Wendy, when we, when we draft one out, I tell everyone, this is a rough draft. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> it will change. That's the only guarantee I have, is that this is gonna change. We're gonna give it our best shot upfront, but then we're gonna have to adjust

Speaker 2 (20:25):

Right. Over time. Right. And when I take people through the What's Next Coaching Pro program that I, I do, yes. Um, we draft a Plan two, and at the end of the six week program, it's a six month plan. And I also then provide the accountability. So I'll check in with them once a month, how are you doing on your plan? You know, what, what needs to change? Do we need to tweak anything? Because like you said, plans change, but the difference from the financial plan is, you know, this is habit changes too, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So, and maybe there Sure, sure. There are some habits that you have to develop to, to have a financial plan. Sure. But, um, to change your lifestyle. Yeah. We are developing some new habits, and so six months is a good time to start trying out new things and seeing new behaviors and seeing new outcomes. And then now what do you wanna do? You know?

Speaker 1 (21:25):

So no, it's the people, the folks that we work with have done a great job building great financial habits. Generally that's why they're working with us, is they've, they've done a great job saving, right. They're just regular people. I don't, the, I say that like the next door millionaire, they're not, they're not Bill Gates <laugh> or Warren Buffet or, you know, they're just regular people. They've done a very good job saving, they've got great habits there,

Speaker 2 (21:49):

Right. But there's new habits that we get to develop when, when we're not getting up and getting in our car and commuting to our job or working from home even, you know, there's new habits to develop.

Speaker 1 (21:59):

One thing I always encourage too is if you can do some sort of bridge retirement, you know, work part-time, something like that, you know, number one, from the financial side, great financial benefits. You keep making money so you don't have to pull as much out of your portfolio. You may even get benefits, but there's also a huge psychological component as well. Hey, I'm still relevant. I'm still needed. Is that the best case scenario? No. The best case is, again, you look inward, you're able to answer all those questions. Who am I, I don't need this job to tell me who I am, but, but I know that it, it is kind of like a, a supplement. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> a little extra help, if I can Sure. If I can plug in what might be volunteer work, it doesn't matter. But even there's, there's studies, medical studies that show this too. Absolutely. The more engaged I am, absolutely. The higher quality, the

Speaker 2 (22:50):

Healthier you are.

Speaker 1 (22:50):

Yeah. Healthier, higher quality of life. Longer I live.

Speaker 2 (22:54):

Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (22:54):

So very, very interesting. So what, and I'm glad you brought that up about the program that you offer and you, you outlined it a little bit. Um, if someone wants to learn more about that, where can they go to learn more about what you, what you do for folks?

Speaker 2 (23:10):

Yeah. Thanks for asking. They can go to the website, Hey, boomer.biz IZ and all of the podcast shows are on there, all of the information about the next coaching program. Um, my next cohort will start on January the 11th. So we're, we'll get through the Christmas break and New Year's, and then dig to perfect time,

Speaker 1 (23:34):

New year, all

Speaker 2 (23:35):

The good juicy

Speaker 1 (23:35):

Stuff. Yeah. So you, so this is in a group setting, is that correct?

Speaker 2 (23:39):

It is, yeah. I try to keep the group to no more than six, eight max. Interesting. Yeah. Um, well, it's because I like that we learn so much from the group. Yeah. You know, it's a lot of, I, I mean, I, I share ideas and do a lot of coaching on the call, and then people get from each other. You know, someone will come say something about the, what they're trying and you see this light bulb go off in someone else's head and they're like, oh, man, I hadn't even thought about that. Yes. So the group dynamic is so strong.

Speaker 1 (24:12):

Yeah, no, I, I actually like that a lot. This kind of having, you know, learning from other situations. I, I, I think that's a good idea and sounds interesting. So it's fun

Speaker 2 (24:23):

Too.

Speaker 1 (24:23):

You said, Hey, boomer biz, right? You're also on Facebook. I know social media. I followed you there, and you've got, again, your own podcast, the Hey Boomer podcast. So I encourage all of my listeners, our, our listeners to, to check out, Hey, boomer, and, and subscribe and like, and stay tuned in because I've already seen evidence of, you know, all the conversations that you've had. There's, there's a lot of good things to take away from, from all of that. With that being said, Wendy, I'm gonna do a short, short game with you here. We'll do true false, and then we'll wrap up for today. Okay. So one word answers, uh, true false things. I've heard about retirement quotes, I've heard about retirement. Uh, first one, true false. There's never enough time in retirement to do all that you want.

Speaker 2 (25:14):

Hmm. Sometimes true <laugh> <laugh>,

Speaker 1 (25:17):

Here's a good one. Retirement is like a long vacation in Las Vegas. The goal is to enjoy it to the fullest, but not so fully that you run outta money. <laugh>.

Speaker 2 (25:25):

Oh man. There's still a lot of parts to that. Um, don't run outta money. False. That it's like a long vacation in Las Vegas. <laugh>,

Speaker 1 (25:35):

I agree with you. Sixties are the new forties.

Speaker 2 (25:39):

Oh God, I hate that one. <laugh>. I hate that one because that goes into the whole ageism thing. Like, you know, I, I am proudly 69 and I think we need to understand the difference between 60 is the new 40, and you look great for your age and all of that, right? It's like, no. Yeah, I'm who I'm, and I'm great just as I am.

Speaker 1 (26:04):

Just take off the last part that that's, you know, Hey, that, that's really good for a 65-year-old. No, no, just, just take that part out, right? Like, you know, uh, whether it's fitness or, or whatever it is, right?

Speaker 2 (26:18):

'cause there are some 35 year olds that you're like, oh my gosh, you are already acting old. And

Speaker 1 (26:24):

Sure. Yeah. I know. And I gotta catch myself there too when I'm doing active things to, to not say, Hey, I, that's pretty good for a, you know, 30 something year old <laugh>. But, uh, that's right. Retirement years are, are truly the golden years.

Speaker 2 (26:39):

Oh, man. They so can be if you've, if you've planned for 'em, they can be. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:45):

Last one here. You, true or false? You get busier when you retire, after you retire

Speaker 2 (26:51):

If you choose to

Speaker 1 (26:53):

<laugh>. I hear that all the time. <laugh>. I get busier once I retired. Wendy, thank you so much for, for coming on today. I had, uh, enjoyed our conversation, had a lot of fun and learned a lot to, um, again, I'm, I want everyone listening to check out, Hey, boomer, and I'm gonna put that in the show notes. And I, any the resources that, uh, Wendy, you think would be helpful, we'll include in there. Do you have, um, was it a quiz or a worksheet you said that I could include as well?

Speaker 2 (27:25):

Um, yeah, we're putting that link up on the page in the next few days. It's called a Vitality Assessment Index. Perfect. So, you know, see where you're at while you're looking at this next stage. Awesome.

Speaker 1 (27:37):

I love assessments. Yeah, we'll put that in the show notes. Thanks again, Wendy. Thanks to all that. Are listening to the Retirement Power Hour podcast for sticking with us this episode. Join us next time where we help listeners invest wiser and retire better. Take care.

Speaker 3 (27:53):

Thank you for listening to the Retirement Power Hour podcast. All material discussed on this podcast is for educational purposes only, and should not be construed as individual tax, legal, or investment advice. Investing involves risk of loss and investors should be prepared to bear potential losses. Past performance may not be indicative of future results. Joe Allaria is an investment advisor representative of Carson Allaria Wealth Management, a registered investment advisory firm. Information discussed on this podcast may be derived from third parties that are believed to be reliable, but Car Rio Wealth Management does not control or guarantee the accuracy or timeliness of such information and disclaims all liability for damages resulting from such sources. Any references to third parties are provided as a convenience and do not constitute an endorsement.