Designing Your Retirement Life w/ Scott Carson, AIF®, CEPA

 Speaker 1 (00:00:01):

<silence> Welcome everyone to this episode of The Retirement Power Hour. This is episode five. As you can see, I'm gonna be joined by Scott Carson. Scott is a wealth advisor here at Carson Allaria Wealth Management. He's been in the financial industry over 30 years. And Scott, welcome back to the show.

Speaker 2 (00:00:18):

Glad to be here, Joe.

Speaker 1 (00:00:20):

And I always like having you on Scott, because you have so many good stories and experiences to share. And today the topic of the show is designing your retirement life. So we're actually not talking really about financial stuff, you know, of course it is financial, but, but it's really the non-financial component of retirement. And this, this whole sort of theme of when you make this transition, it's, it's a, it's a big transition. It's something new, and it, it's really a big hurdle for a lot of folks out there. So, I'm excited. I'm, I'm actually, I started researching this, Scott, I know you kind of looked into some of this too, uh, before the show, and I was actually really excited to talk about this because it, it was like a whole new field of study that I, that I wasn't even aware of. And it was surprising to me because of what we do every day for folks on the financial front. But let me ask you in, in your words, Scott, what do you think designing your life or designing your retirement life means? What does it mean to you?

Speaker 2 (00:01:25):

Well, I can tell you what it means to me. And again, it means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. But I just wanna, uh, step back for a second and say, while this might be a new area of study, these are things we've been talking to clients about for years, and here's why. I think we've been blessed to work with a lot of very good, successful people who have been great stewards of their capital. They've saved their money, they've been disciplined. So I think they're, they've got the game won from a financial standpoint, right? And where we add a lot of value to those clients is helping them talk about the next chapter, the next phase of their life. Yeah. And again, that could be while they're still working or it could be in retirement. So when you ask me what do I think about designing your retirement life means in, in my situation, it's all about what do, what do you want your daily activities to look like?

Speaker 2 (00:02:28):

And again, as Joe said, while some people might think I'm retired, I'm far from it <laugh>. So I still work every day, still actively involved. But as most of you know, I now spend six months out of the year in Florida. And I never thought I would do that 10 years ago. But there were a few life situations that came up that caused me to take a look at it. And after spending time there, it became something that Kendra and I said, you know what? We ought to give this a try. So I think that's what happens in most people's situations is they don't really know, or they don't really feel as though they can take that step. Right. But some people, it might be a two week vacation that they go on, it might be a four day trip, and they just really like the surrounding area. They like the weather, and all of a sudden they say, you know what? Let's, let's give this a shot with a longer exten, uh, extended stay. Right. And before you know it, uh, we fell in love with that aspect and being able to design our life, even though I'm still working to be able to do it remotely six months outta the year.

Speaker 1 (00:03:42):

Yeah. Well, yeah, it's clear to see from me 'cause I'm around you more often, but just, uh, number one, it takes a lot of courage to, to do that. But, but number two, the benefits and the fruits that come of that, you know, it can really be life changing. And I think a lot of folks, like you said, they've done a great job financially. The ones that we see done a great job financially. Um, and we might give them permission, you know, to step away and retire, but they still struggle to answer that question, what am I going to do in retirement? And it ha it, it becomes this big mental psychological hurdle to actually taking the step, even when you have the, the financial side, the financial professional saying, you can do it. There is still this other really big side and it's a whole new phase of why do you, why do you think folks have a hard time answer answering the question, what am I gonna do when I retire?

Speaker 2 (00:04:44):

Well, think about it, Joe. Most people spend 30 to 40 years actively involved in a career. Could be any discipline, but you become a creature of habit where you're up every day at the same time. You're spending 40 to 45 hours a week at your place of work, you're interacting with the same people, and you just don't tend to give it a lot of thought on, what am I gonna do when this stops? Right? And then there happened to be a lot of people that they just don't have hobbies to speak of. Yeah. So, you know, if you don't have a lot of things that you enjoy doing outside of work, it makes it real difficult to start thinking about how am I gonna occupy my time for some 40 to 45 hours a week that I've been spending at my job for the past 30 to 40 years? Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:05:45):

Yeah, you're right. We're, we are creatures of habit and it's just, change is not always comfortable, even if you're making a change towards something you wanna do. I, I had a story, there's a, a client of ours that I spoke with and we talked about she's getting ready to retire, and we were talking about traveling, and she was mentioning she wanted to go to a certain place. And when she retired and I said, um, you know, I encouraged her do it now. And I said, do you get vacation time <laugh>? She said, yeah. Looked at her husband, do you get vacation time? He said, yeah. I said, you know, do it now, but this, there, there was still a hurdle, you know, that we talked about after the fact. She was like, well, I, you know, there's the planning and there's the, the flights and the, the, the stay.

Speaker 1 (00:06:34):

And, and so it's sometimes easier, I think, to just keep doing what you've been doing, even though, you know that vacation was something she really wanted to go do. And retirement is something that I think people generally want to do, but it's almost easier to just, to just stay on the track that you're on and just keep doing what you're in the habit of doing. But I think, I think, what do you think, Scott? I mean, financially speaking, I think the biggest hurdle, maybe, maybe it's a crutch, I don't know. But the first question you have to answer before you go design your life is, can I retire safely? If, if you're talking about designing your retirement life, mm-Hmm, <affirmative>, can I, can I retire safely? Will I run out of money? Do, uh, you, you know, you have to answer that question before you start just designing and doing everything, uh, planning everything that you wanna do. But do you think people genuinely don't know how to answer that question of, can I retire safely? Or do you think that it's just some sort of crutch to simply, you know, not have to make that change?

Speaker 2 (00:07:39):

What are your thoughts? Well, uh, I'll answer it this way. There are people who are proactive and decide to go down the path of doing some comprehensive planning and determine if the retirement lifestyle that they've looked forward to is gonna be feasible from a financial standpoint. And then you have those people that are reactive and therefore they just let things happen to them, and the chips will fall where they may. So again, in our world, we work with primarily the proactive people. Uh, they engage our advice and our expertise to help them develop a plan, right? To prove in black and white, under very conservative assumptions that the retirement lifestyle that they've thought about for all these years is achievable. Yeah. So, uh, and then the other subset, yeah, they, they might use, um, use it as a crutch or a, an excuse, let's call it as to why they can't pursue some of those. So-called dreams.

Speaker 1 (00:08:55):

I've heard, I've heard it said by some, I'm sure you have as well, that, you know, I don't want to have to pinch pennies in retirement financially. So I'm, I'll just work a few more years and, 'cause I don't want to have to worry about money. But we may have, you know, already gone through the process and, and maybe shown them or explain that you could retire now and, and you don't have to pinch pennies and you don't have to worry about money as long as these are your goals. You want to sort of maintain the same lifestyle, maybe travel, you know, increase your travel and things like that. But a lot of people, it's, it's actually hard on the expense side. I'm sure there are some out there that would accept the challenge, but it's, it's actually hard to just completely change your expense profile, your, your lifestyle in a way that, that goes from zero to 60.

Speaker 1 (00:09:48):

I, I think because habits are so ingrained, I haven't seen it too often. Most of the time folks retire and for the most part, spend in the same ballpark, um, you know, the same amount of money. Maybe again, you add some travel, but, but that's about it. But do, do you, have you seen that when, when you're meeting with clients or prospective clients and, and you're talking about retirement and you're saying, Hey, you can retire. And have you ever seen folks continue to work longer than they need to, even maybe if they don't even enjoy their job? Have you ever seen anything like that? We

Speaker 2 (00:10:26):

See it all the time, and I have, uh, a couple right now who, and I, and I mean a couple of clients right now who are more than capable of retiring, but I think there's this overwhelming fear of change going from a daily routine of doing what they've done for a long, long period of time into something that is unknown to them. Meaning, how will I occupy all this time? So, uh, I can't really get over that hurdle with them. They're gonna do what they're gonna do, and in this case, these people like what they do. So that in and of itself is a reason why they keep working now. Yeah. That's

Speaker 1 (00:11:16):

A little different too, that not as bad,

Speaker 2 (00:11:19):

Right? We do run into the people that, that not necessarily dislike what they do, but they would probably prefer doing something else. Sure. But again, it's the only thing they've known for probably decades. Right. So I would say, again, I I've told you, and you've heard this countless times, and you probably get tired of hearing it, but I'm in my 33rd year of earning a PhD in psychology. So when you sit across the table from hundreds of people as I have over my career, you start to become sort of a psychologist and understanding how people think. Yep. And it's not only about how they think about money, but how they think about their life. Right. And you can just tell those people who are ready to go on to the next chapter and those people who aren't.

Speaker 1 (00:12:08):

No, I, I have also become more and more fascinated with the psychology side of what we do, because it's almost like you get to see an, a real life research, uh, project or case study right in front of you because we get, we see all of these same people, not the same people, different people in the same situations, similar situations. And you know, like I said, it's, it's a, it's a case study where you start to see patterns and patterns of behavior, um, patterns of spending and, and goals, all that sort of thing. And, and one thing that I realized just not very long ago is that I'm gonna have to get better at the, the psychology side in my conversations. And so I've had in the last couple of years really good and, and really deep conversations with clients about their lives and what they wanna do in, in their retirement.

Speaker 1 (00:13:09):

Because I had too many times where I did a financial plan and then I said, well, you can retire if, you know, in my professional opinion, you're safe to retire. We've done a financial plan, and I don't think you have, you should be concerned about running out of money, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But then, you know, they'll, they continue to work or maybe they're already retired. And I say, and and they've told me they don't wanna leave millions and millions to their heirs or beneficiaries. Maybe they don't even have children. And I'm showing them what you're projected to, to have, you know, a couple million dollars at if you live to age 100 or 90 or whatever. But yet they, they haven't, they don't make any changes to their lifestyle. And, and so they're tracking somewhere where they don't wanna be, or they're saying they don't wanna be, and it's not the worst problem to have to, to have too much at, at your death. But I really started to shift my focus on how can we help people maximize their satisfaction or happiness, or whatever you want to call it during retirement. How can we help them in all of the years that they are retired to increase their quality of life? And, and it may not, it may have nothing to do with money. Money is a part of it, but the biggest thing holding them back may not actually be financial.

Speaker 1 (00:14:35):

True. I guess I oppose that to you have, have you also seen retirees that, that have retired and they, they've taken that step so they, they've gotten over that hurdle, but, but then they struggle with the, the next step of designing their life. So they sort of just live the status quo and, and they don't really explore any, anything new that might bring extra added fulfillment. Ha ha. Have you seen cases like that?

Speaker 2 (00:15:00):

Many times, and I have a, a story that sticks in my mind from 15 years ago. Uh, we had a long-term client and, um, he spent his career working with a local utility company, and his work hours were the 11:00 PM to 7:00 AM shift. So granted, we all spend a considerable time away from our significant others just due to the fact that one or both spouses are working. But yeah, this was even to the extreme since he wasn't there typically in the, um, uh, he wasn't there during the day when she was working. And obviously she was there at night when he was working, so Right. They spent a lot of time apart. But yeah, I'll never forget him sitting in the conference room looking me in the eye and says, you know what? Retirement sucks <laugh>. And I was kind of taken aback by that. And he said, I hate retirement.

Speaker 2 (00:15:59):

He goes, anybody who said, these are your golden years, didn't know what they were talking about. So there was a prime example of somebody who wasn't prepared right, mentally and emotionally to take on retirement right now. Uh, he worked a company job, which he couldn't wait to retire because he was tired of the mundane activities that he did for years and years and years. And he was financially capable of retiring, but he just didn't know how to fill his time. So I spend more of my time today talking to someone who's contemplating retirement about, and I'll give you an example. Uh, when I ask somebody, okay, let's assume today's your last day of work, right? Right. Tomorrow you wake up, what are you gonna do? And I get a response like, well, you know, I'll, I'll maybe sleep a extra half hour. And, and quite honestly, as you age, we become creatures of habit of when we go to bed, when we wake up.

Speaker 2 (00:17:01):

So, uh, people still tend to wake up rather early. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So, yeah. Uh, I'll, I'll wake up, I'll have my cup of coffee, I'll scan the news, I'll eat a little breakfast. I I'm gonna start going to the gym and I'll work out, I'll come back, walk the dog, and then I say, okay, uh, you've done all that. Now it's 10 30 in the morning, <laugh>. What are you gonna do for the rest of the day? And they look at me like, you know what? You're right. Uh, all those things I just described don't take up that much time. Right. So I said, you know, before we pull the trigger and you tell your boss you're done, let's make sure we got a game plan on what you're gonna do every day so that you don't die from boredom. Yeah. And that's a common theme.

Speaker 1 (00:17:49):

Absolutely. I think, um, some people think when they think of retirement as this, this vacation, I think some people maybe fall into that trap of just thinking that retirement is, you know, let's just say you, you like to golf you even that. Well, yeah, I'm gonna golf. I'm gonna golf every day. Which very few people have said that to me. By the way, I'm a golfer and I don't know that I'd want to golf every single day when I retire. But it that you can, you can certainly fall into that trap of thinking it's, you know, I'm gonna golf, I'm gonna travel, I'm gonna do all these fun things, but they don't take up the whole time. You know, you're not gonna endlessly be traveling, obviously, you can increase your travel a lot and still have a lot of downtime. You can golf, golf takes about what if you're playing 18 holes?

Speaker 1 (00:18:40):

If you're a real diehard golfer, and maybe you play 36 every once in a while, but it's not gonna take all day and your body can't hold up with you doing that every day for 30 years, 20 years in retirement. So what are you going to do? And especially, you know, like you said, the the guy that, that wa wasn't happy with retirement at all, maybe, and some people don't have the hobbies to, to even carry in. But even those that have the hobbies that say, well, I'm gonna fish, I'm gonna golf, I'm gonna do that, I still, I still get a little concerned because in my mind I think that's still, that's not likely gonna take up all of your time. That's just one part of your retirement lifestyle allocation, if we want to call it. We spend a lot of time talking about the financial investment allocation.

Speaker 1 (00:19:30):

Not very much time, if any, on your lifestyle allocation. But I, I wanted to get your opinion too, on this. I mean, some of these people, some of the folks that we've seen that, that don't jump into retirement, um, do you think, do you think it has anything to do with, you know, hey, if I move to the next phase, which, you know, you're working, you're working okay, if I have my working phase, then my retirement phase and then the death phase, <laugh>. So do you think people just don't wanna make the next step 'cause they think, man, I'm one <laugh>, I'm one step closer. The next phase is I'm not here anymore. I mean, do you think that plays into this, in this psychology part of the retirement decision at all? They just the thought of, I don't want to get older. I don't, I don't want to talk about Medicare and social security and all that.

Speaker 2 (00:20:21):

It absolutely plays into it. And you, we've all heard the stories of the man or woman who spent 30, 35, maybe 40 years in a career, retired with no hobbies, and they were dead one month later. Yeah. And who knows what Cause, but it happens. I i, I know of specific examples. Yeah. So kind of what you're referring to is something that we read in a study a few years ago, and that is all about kind of the three phases of retirement, the go-go phase, the slow go phase, and the no-go phase. Yeah. So a lot of times when people retire, they have pent up energy, pent up demand. They're, they're fine financially and they hit the ground running with activities. They do a lot of fishing, a lot of golfing, uh, hunting, whatever their hobbies might be. Right. Bowling, swimming, bike riding. And then they, uh, they kind of burn out Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:21:20):

In that go-go phase. 'cause they just don't wanna do those things every day. So when we talk about the finances for people, we always stress the word diversification. Right? Right. So you need to diversify your time and your activities when you're in retirement so that you can live a more balanced lifestyle. And again, they hit the go-go phase hard. And then everyone just due to Mother Nature, transitions to a slow go phase. Right. Which says, you know what, we've been to Europe three times in the last eight years. Yeah. We've seen everything. We don't have any plans of doing that anymore. And really, there are no other places we want to go to. Right. So then they revert back to being kind of, uh, community oriented, homebody type people. And then just through time they transition into a no-go phase where they just don't wanna do much of anything. Yeah. And, uh, for people out there who've seen their parents have longevity, they will be a testament to that and say, yes, I witnessed exactly that with my mom and dad. Yep. So yes, there is a, a fear of making the decision, uh, because they don't know the, how they're gonna handle those three phases.

Speaker 1 (00:22:37):

Well, I wanna introduce this concept and, uh, of designing your life. 'cause it's, it's not a concept that we came up with. It's, it's actually anyone listening can go out and, and just search, design your life or designing your life. It's, it's actually a book that was written by Dave Evans and Bill Burnett. These, these guys are, uh, were Stanford professors. They came from an engineering background and, and they have developed this platform of designing your life, which is not just for retirees, it's for people at any phase of life to really, I, I think of it as just thinking outside the box on what you really want to get out of your life. And as I was listening, I listened to a podcast, I was reading some materials. My, even though what we do, we do what we do every day. Scott, my light bulb in my mind still kind of just blue just listening to these guys, because I didn't realize that there, there was this much depth in this area because we sometimes act as counselors to clients on these conversations.

Speaker 1 (00:23:45):

I had no idea that this was, there was this much depth and, uh, you know, that these guys had created this platform. So it's a really neat tool. So as we talk, as we continue to talk, we're gonna talk about that and some just the frameworks for folks listening, how they can move forward and get over that hump. And I also wanna quote something you said, 'cause you talk about retiring, or I should say financial independence. You kind of, you have defined that a certain way. And, uh, I'm gonna put you on the spot and see if you can define it for me. Uh, do you know what I'm talking about when I

Speaker 2 (00:24:20):

Absolutely. I've, I had this phrase for 30 years, and financial independence is that point in time where retirement is absolutely affordable and work becomes optional for you. And I think that's a great scenario of, uh, kind of helping people through this process to maybe approach this in a transitional way. Hey, you can afford it. Um, you, you're absolutely ready, capable of retiring, but if you can't pull the trigger, well, let's do it in phases. Let's see if we can't talk to your employer about you going to four days a week. Yeah. Something like that. Or maybe three days a week. Ultimately. And given the situation we're in in America today, with the demand for people to work and specifically high quality people, most employers, I think, are willing to be flexible as opposed to just seeing a valuable resource leave entirely.

Speaker 1 (00:25:29):

Absolutely. Especially as hard as it is to find new good employees, strong employees. So I guess it starts at a 30,000 foot view to reframe how you think about your life. How do you, how do you think about your retirement? We have to sort of reframe that. And one thing that we wanna debunk for anyone listening that is near this phase is that, hey, once you retire, hey, you don't have, you don't have much time left. It's the last phase before death. I mean, all those negative connotations. Uh, and I asked the client this yesterday, we were talking about this very topic, and she's 60. And I was sharing with this, this reframing with her and saying, look, let's just say you live to a normal life expectancy or around it. And that's, that's 85 years old, so that's 25 years from now. I said, but think back to when you were 35, you're 60 now.

Speaker 1 (00:26:24):

Think back to when you were 35. Do you feel like that's a significant time ago to 25 years ago? And she's like, wow. Yeah. That, you know, a lot's, it was a much different time 25 years ago. And I think people just sort of write off retirement and think, well, I've worked and worked and worked, and now now I'm retired, and so I don't need to do this planning. We need to reframe that because it could be 25, 30 years, even if it's 10 years, 15 years. If you think back to where you were 10 or 15 years ago, it's a significant amount of time. So some people, I like the term second act, it's, it's your second act. Um, some people take that and, and, and go into even different careers and things. And that's why I'm so fascinated, fascinated about this. I think too many people just fall into the, to the, the, the trap, I guess, Scott, of I'm gonna work, work, work and just retire because that's just the thing to do.

Speaker 1 (00:27:23):

And when I retire, I just, I don't do much stay around the house. And that not, there's nothing wrong with that if that's what you want to do. But there is an, and also an opportunity to design, uh, I love that word, de design your life. Do exactly how you want. So let's, let's jump into a little bit of a framework, talking about your lifestyle allocation. The first one you've hit on, it's pursuits you. So, and, and this is, we, we got this from Anna Rappaport. She's a another consultant and speaker on these retirement topics, really good information. But we, she has four kind of key areas when you talk about allocations, not stocks and bonds, but four different categories of, of your life portfolio. And the first one is pursuits. So it could be hobbies, work, volunteering. And you, we've talked about the importance of having, having those hobbies. I think one thing, and you just touched on it, I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask you the question, but when it comes to like a bridge job or an encore career, or a a phased retirement, what have you seen for folks that have done that? How, how have the outcomes been in your, in your experience?

Speaker 2 (00:28:37):

Uh, great question. And I've seen plenty. And the one that is most prevalent, uh, would be very close to home. I'll use my father-in-Law as an example. Okay. Here's somebody who worked 30 years at a Fortune 500 company and retired from there at the age of 55. And he kind of transitioned his way because in many big companies back in the day, you could build up and store, uh, vacation days. So he also had an income tax preparation business that was started by his mom. And he began doing that when he was 15 years old. So by the time he retired, he had already been doing tax returns for 35 years. But the way he transitioned out is the last few years he saved up all of his vacation time, and he took it during tax season, the months of primarily February, March and April.

Speaker 2 (00:29:38):

So, um, he leaves at 55, then his tax practice continues to grow, it flourishes. And again, very near and dear to home because my wife Kendra started doing tax returns with her dad when she was 16. So he retired finally at the age of 86. Wow. So he spent 71 years doing tax returns. He'll be 91 this year, and he is still sharp as a tack. Wow. So I would describe that as an encore career. Yeah. That turned out to be very successful because as people know, that's not a full-time job. Right. Uh, it's, it's more than full-time for the months of February, March, and half of April, but then has the rest of the year, uh, literally off to do other things that he likes to enjoy. And it provided him the financial resources Sure. To maintain the standard of living. So that would be a great example of an encore.

Speaker 2 (00:30:41):

Uh, a second job, I I have another client, very vivid. He came to me five years before he was ready to retire. So his target retirement age was 60. He was a referral. He came in and I did simply planning for him for five years. He's very analytical, and he wanted to make sure he crossed all of his t's dotted all of his i's, and that he was able to retire financially when the age of 60 arrived. Yeah. Now, in his situation, he had a defined benefit pension plan. Right. He was gonna get a monthly guaranteed payment for the rest of his life. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So time comes, he retires, and within two months he calls me up and says, Scott, I'm bored to death. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And what I learned in this particular case was he only retired because he thought it was kind of a novelty to say he was retired and that he could, but he's probably the reason I've taken so much time and effort to talk to people about the mental and the psychological and the social aspects of retirement, because his started out as a failure.

Speaker 2 (00:31:59):

Even though he was okay financially, he was not enjoying life. So fast forward, he, through, uh, personal networking, he ends up landing a job at a local company working three days a week, and he can't wait to get up and go to work. Yeah. Because he loves it so much. Now, last time I met with him, he said, you know what I'm thinking about asking him to let me be full-time again. <laugh>. So there's somebody who has some hobbies, right? Yeah. But, but not enough to occupy his time. And he's landed in a situation where he is doing something that he feels like he's making a difference at the company in a supervisory role, helping and mentoring people. Yeah. And he loves working again.

Speaker 1 (00:32:44):

Yeah. That's awesome. I I, I have seen only incredible results with this sort of bridge job, I'll call it, or this phase retirement. Any client that I've seen that has made arrangements with their employer, and, and to be honest, most of them have, have fallen into it almost by accident. They weren't even, they weren't intentionally trying to go and, and negotiate this, but the, but the opportunity just arose in, in some form or fashion, and they, and they sort of fell into it. And I've seen only incredible results. They're happier, they're engaged, they're less stressed, be on the financial side because they are still making income. So now they're not having, maybe they're not withdrawing from their retirement portfolio at all, or if they are, it's a smaller amount. Uh, I mean, the, they may work three days a week, they may work two days a week, but the benefits all around seem to be very, very good.

Speaker 1 (00:33:44):

In my experience when I've seen this. So the encouragement to people that are looking to retire, I try to encourage clients all the time. First of all, you don't understand the financial impact of making an extra even 20, $30,000 a year. It, it's very significant. Now, clients may not need that. You may not need that extra 20. Some people really could, some people are really trying to retire. They're right there. They, and just, just making that little extra amount of money every year could, could be the difference between safely retiring now versus not. But, but let's just say you don't need to make the extra money, um, the emotional, the psychological part of, of staying engaged in something. And probably if, if you're designing this, and Scott, I wanna ask you because you, you've done this, but if you're designing this, you get to kind of pick what you wanna do.

Speaker 1 (00:34:40):

And then you could say to your employer, these are things I wanna do, and it probably take me three days a week. These are things I don't wanna do. So I'm willing to take a pay cut on that and not do those things. What do you think? And if, if you can design it, you're only, you're not working full time, you're only doing the things that you enjoy doing. You're making money. And that's why I think the, the experiences have been so good. But Scott, let me ask you if you don't mind, because you've, you've, and this is not a retirement thing, this is a anytime, it, it's, it's harder almost to do when you're a little bit younger, maybe because you don't have the financial resources to, you know, to just step out and, and retire. But if you try to design your life at a younger age, some, sometimes we gotta pay our dues, right?

Speaker 1 (00:35:27):

So that we can build up some sort of financial foundation. But you can really think outside the box like this at any age, really, at any age, at any phase when you're working retire. But I wanna ask you, Scott, because you did this, um, how has that experience been for you when you thought through your own situation and you went to design what you wanted to do, and, and you went from being, you know, involved in all, all things that it takes to running, you know, running a financial business, um, to focusing on clients. Just talk through that, if you don't mind.

Speaker 2 (00:36:06):

Sure. Um, I think every now and then we have to do a self-assessment and find out truly and meaningfully are, are we really happy doing what we're doing? And also, I would say I've been counseling people for years on taking that risk or chasing that dream and designing their lifestyle. So I'll say the most important thing that we, where we add value, Joe and I, I'll get to my situation, is it's asking good questions and then being a great listener. So I can't tell you how many times people have said to me, Scott, you know what, nobody's ever asked me that before. Yeah. And they've said, you know what, uh, you've asked me questions today that I, we've never thought of, and you've, uh, created a spark, and we're gonna go home, and we're gonna give that a lot more consideration. So I've had the good fortune of people coming back and saying, you know what, uh, you've said some things that we think are life changing for us, and we're gonna do it.

Speaker 2 (00:37:19):

Right. So again, we proved financially that they were capable, but we challenged them also to think outside the box. And again, this goes back to the psychology of people. There are people who are willing to think big and outside the box, and there are people who just don't. And that's a mindset that's really hard to change. Yeah. So, in my case, I've always been a big picture, think outside the box, um, wake up every day and figure out how can we be a differentiator from our peers in our profession, and what do I really wanna do with my life? So I tell people I eat my own cooking, you know, uh, things that I've recommended to people. I sat down and did the same assessments, Kendra and I, and like I said, 10 years ago, I would've never thought it possible just because of my own type a personality of showing up and being in the office early and late every day. Yeah. Into the evening. So, um, I guess this most recent pandemic is something that has changed lives for a lot of us, right? We've realized that working remotely is, uh, not only a possibility, but it's incredibly feasible and you can be just as successful. We're fortunate in our business that, uh, we do not have to be in a specific location in front of specific customers or people every day in order to earn a living IE like a dentist or a doctor or a neurosurgeon, they have to be in their office to see patients.

Speaker 1 (00:39:00):

Yep.

Speaker 2 (00:39:01):

We do our job with technology. So right now, people would have no idea where we're sitting. Uh, we happen to be about 30 feet apart in Illinois, but I could be, uh, in Fort Myers, Florida, and nobody would know the difference. Yep. So I just stepped back and I developed my own personal bucket list and said, look, these are a lot of things I wanna accomplish, and every day that I wait is a chance or time that I'm losing to do these things. Yep. So it took a lot of courage and, uh, a lot of thinking, a lot of thought provoking questions and ideas. But, um, our timing was right. And so far we've been able to pull it off. And I would say that I'm incredibly happy in my current lifestyle Yeah. Of having a good work life balance.

Speaker 1 (00:39:57):

And you, and the design part of that from a pursuits standpoint is that you designed your, not retirement, but you designed your work life to where now you do the things that I think don't wanna speak for you, but the things that you enjoy doing the most. And that is speaking with clients, educating, and, and really just having conversations with clients. The things that I just, I talked with a client yesterday. Um, she is, she's doing very well as a, she's a veterinarian. Um, she has grown her business and again, just doing awesome things. There are parts of running a veterinary practice that are not working with animals, and she doesn't like that as much. And I hear, I mean, that is almost a constant, I don't know of a, a lot of people who are business owners that absolutely love running the business. They love working in the business, but not so much the other things, the administrative parts.

Speaker 1 (00:40:58):

And you've been able to, to do that. Like, I would encourage many retirees or pre-retirees try to design that. So where you could say, look, these are things I like to do, um, to your employer and tell them, these are things I like to do. These are things I don't want to do. I'll do these for two, three days a week. Take a pay cut. What do you think? And if they go for it, it's almost a, it's a best case scenario, but the, the where you made your move kind of touches on the second part, you know, we're talking about four major categories of your life portfolio. The first one's pursuits, the second one's places. And so maybe just talk a little bit about that, you know, what went into your decision or, you know, client stories as well about places which could, you know, includes travel, your home life, where you spend time throughout the year, your community, you know, we see a lot of people snowbirds, uh, that go down somewhere warm during the winter as well. But talk through what, it's kind of an obvious question, but talk through kinda what went into that for you.

Speaker 2 (00:42:00):

Sure. And, and I'll answer that, but I wanna backtrack just a little bit, Joe. Oh yeah. And, um, I think this could be of great value to the listeners. So, as you know, uh, I participated in what's called the Strategic Coach program a few years ago. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And it was an opportunity to go four times a year to Chicago and be in a meeting from people all over the world who were successful entrepreneurs, business owners. And I learned probably the most valuable lesson of my professional career in that Strategic Coach program, which is what caused me to do what I did. And real quickly, uh, we were, we were given an exercise to sit down and itemize all the things that we did in our work life, whether it was, uh, daily routines, weekly, monthly, quarterly, annually. Yep. And once you develop the list, you go to each item and you would put a letter next to that.

Speaker 2 (00:42:57):

And the letter was either a U, it was an E, it was a C, or it was an I. So the U stood for your unique ability. So what things do I do in my professional life that are unique to me and I'm good and successful at, so I itemized those things. Yep. And then e stood for excellent. What things do I do that I'm excellent at, but could probably be done by somebody else if delegated. Yeah. And then you put a C what things am I competent at? But without a doubt could be done better by other people in the organization. Yeah. And then lastly, an I, what things am I truly incompetent at? But I do anyway, and I probably cause more problems than I do. Good, right? Yeah. Right. So that's a no brainer. So immediately, and then you'll recall this Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>.

Speaker 2 (00:43:54):

Yeah. I basically delegated everything but my unique abilities. Yeah. And I've always thought that to be either sitting in front of a client, talking to a client on the phone, talking to a prospect, doing strategic planning. Yeah. Um, all the other facets of running the business could be done better by other people. So again, that was a huge shift. But once I did it and I saw the results, that things were running much better Right. As, uh, with me not being involved in those activities. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So that was a huge step, right. That helped me get the courage to say, you know what, I can probably design now even a better work life balance. Sure. That included being remote part of the year. So now to your question, sorry about being so long-winded, but that's fine. You, you're talking about places, correct? Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:44:47):

So many years ago I was visiting a client in Scottsdale, Arizona, and obviously they have beautiful weather the majority of the year. Actually the sun shines there. Well, more than 300 days a year. Yeah. So in contrast, you and I are sitting here in Edwardsville this morning. It's a very dreary day out. It's raining, it's in the forties, <laugh>. It's gloomy. Yeah. And quite honestly, this goes, uh, along with our discussion about people who retire. Yeah. And those people that wanna do outdoor activities, and today they're probably limited or restricted being indoors. Yeah. So it adds to kind of their frustration. And quite honestly, some people, it can even cause a episode of depression Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> when these days like this go on for a week or so. Right. So I realized that everybody I saw, whether it was in the grocery store, the gas station, the golf course, people were very happy.

Speaker 2 (00:45:48):

Yeah. And there's something to be said for waking up. And again, I think the actual statistic is the sun shines in Arizona about 340 days a year <laugh>. And that's only 25 days that it does. Wow. People are just naturally more happy Yeah. Being in that type of geographical environment. Yep. So I think when you're designing that retirement lifestyle, now again, we all have different likes and dislikes. Some people may love to ski. So as you know, you were just in Colorado last week Yeah. And you commented on how beautiful it was out there. Yeah. Even though it was cold and snowy. Right. Some people like that. Right. Others gravitate to warmer clients, Florida, Arizona, Texas. Right. Because they've spent their whole life in, um, climates where we have days like today, or even colder as you get into the, some in the Northern States. So I think finding the location that fits your lifestyle is what's very important. And then once you're there, that's when you'll figure out how to become part of a community and what, what your home life will look like, and then where you might travel from those destinations. Quite honestly, uh, since I've spent the last two winters, we'll call it in Florida, I feel like I'm on vacation almost every day. Yeah. Due to the climate and the development where we live. Yeah. So I've almost lost a little bit of the appetite for traveling elsewhere. Yeah, true. So it does happen.

Speaker 1 (00:47:24):

And, uh, I guess that the places, and you may not move, you may not move to a different place as as you go into retirement. But if we're talking the four things to keep in mind when you're building your life portfolio, places could be a huge one. You may relocate permanently for part of the year, like you're doing Scott, or, or may just take trips elsewhere, you know, like, like I'm doing now. Of course, the biggest reason that I, you know, am not going to just make a permanent move is because of the third category. And that's people, you know. So you got, you've got pursuits, places, and then people and, and the people component might be the biggest component might be for some, but your, it's with your family, your friends, your community. And as I've shared with many, many people, I, I would love to move to Colorado or to the mountains, but my mom would never let me <laugh> <laugh>.

Speaker 1 (00:48:18):

But uh, no, she, she would. But my, my kids and they, they play with their cousins right now. They're all young. My kids are five and two, uh, right now. And just being around grandma and grandpa and all that stuff, that's very important. And even if you don't have young kids and maybe, or no kids, or your kids are grown and gone, just having a community of people that, that can support you, that you can feel like it's home. Because really it's the people that do make it feel like home. I, I spent four years in Carbondale, um, back when I went to college and Carbondale, Illinois, for those that don't know, not probably the biggest tourist destination out there in the world. Okay. But it's, uh, it's, it's got a, it's got a, a university there and, and I don't know how big it is, but not a very big town.

Speaker 1 (00:49:10):

Not a lot going on. But, you know, I really felt comfortable there after I was there for a few years because of the people, because of the relationships that I had. And, and in fact, my, one of my best friends stayed there and lived there for, shoot, another 10 years after he graduated. He and his, his wife because of that very thing. Just, just the foundation of people that are there. So something to think about, whether you're retiring and staying or retiring and moving or traveling. The last one that I wanted to spend just a moment on is, is health. That's the last part of your life portfolio. It's so important. Um, you know, the, obviously you've, you've heard the, the phrase and the saying, at least you have your health well, so everything else can go wrong. But you know, if you have your health, that's something, a very big thing to be thankful for.

Speaker 1 (00:49:56):

And of course, we're not here if we don't have our health. So that not only access to healthcare and the, you know, keeping, uh, the familiarity of your healthcare providers, but I would say, Scott, one of the bigger things is access to, you know, workout facilities or like you said, the, the, the warm outdoor climate, if you like to do outdoor activities that can have a huge factor not only on your mental health, but your physical health. Because if you are getting outdoors and you're hiking and you know, you're riding a bike and doing all this stuff, I don't even think about doing that for November, December, January, February, March, probably five months outta the year. I don't even think about doing anything outside. And anyone who lives in the Midwest kind of understands that. But if you're down in, you know, Fort Myers, Florida, Scott, um, it probably is that, is that something that, that you find yourself saying, gosh, that's such a nice day, I'm gonna go take a bike ride?

Speaker 2 (00:50:56):

Well, uh, absolutely Joe. And what's really kind of, uh, hard for people to understand is how I can walk out my front door on January 3rd in shorts and a t-shirt. Right. <laugh>. Yeah. And be very comfortable. And we live in a, a development that is very active. So in the mornings, and I'm talking about as soon as the sun comes up, there are people walking, running, biking, playing tennis, playing pickleball, swimming laps, fishing. Uh, we have multiple lakes in our development. So you darn near have to be on your guard if you're driving just to avoid not hitting someone. Yeah. So it's a very active lifestyle and like you said, not possible where we live in the Midwest or any of the Northern states, uh, there are some hardcore people that would get out and do some activities, but not to the extent that I see there.

Speaker 2 (00:51:56):

So it goes a long way to, I think, longevity. So yeah, I agree to, to talk about the, the health and money aspect. I just had a meeting two days ago with a client, he's 72 years old, and at the end of the meeting, uh, he was showing me and having me listen to his knees on how they creaked because of the two new knees that he has. And he said, you know, the next thing I have to have my hip replaced. And then he said, I can't wait to get back on the golf course. And I reminded him, I said, you know, um, we'll call him Bill. I said, bill, um, none of this money that we're talking about has any meaning unless you can, unless you can enjoy it. Yeah. So I tell people, yes, the financial aspect of retirement is incredibly important, but the health aspect is maybe even more important for two reasons.

Speaker 2 (00:52:53):

How many people, and I will say I know many that spend a good deal of their time just going to doctor's appointments in Florida. Right, right. Uh, or anywhere they're spending a lot of time with the doctor and that's a result of maybe not taking as good a care of themselves in their earlier years, not dedicating time to exercise and fitness, but also there's a cost associated with that. Right? Right. Uh, yes. Some of them may be on Medicare, but we also talk about those people in that bridge gap where maybe they're leaving or transitioning out of retirement prior to age 65. And their biggest hurdle is health insurance, because now they're leaving a company health insurance plan. They have to get it on their own, and it's not cheap. So back to your point about, um, working with your employer to stay maybe, uh, three days a week. Yeah. And qualifying to stay on their health insurance plan, right. Is a great way to transition or just working enough and earning enough money to pay for health insurance if you're not able to stay on the plan. Yeah. So health, health, fitness, et cetera, goes a long way in designing that retirement lifestyle.

Speaker 1 (00:54:14):

Yeah. And I have a client at the same time. Those are, those are good things. If you can stay on work part-time and get health insurance, that's great. But I also have a client that, and, and many more than just one, but one in particular comes to mind where she, she again would like to retire, but, but has kind of said for health insurance, she's gonna continue to work for another few years. So we don't, we don't want people to get the false notion, which many do that you have to work to get health insurance. 'cause like you said, um, you could earn some money and just pay for health insurance through the marketplace or just use your portfolio to pay for it. But it, shoot, it's such a good benefit if you could continue to work a little bit longer. Uh, that sheep in particular said that she likes, she does like the, the doctor she works for, she works for a few doctors, she likes the doctors.

Speaker 1 (00:55:02):

So she's willing to stick around and do that two to three days a week. She's like, I need to do three days a week so that I can, you know, continue to have health insurance. So it works for her. And that's the biggest thing. I really want to encourage people to go and check out Designing Your life.com. And I will share that in the show notes. But that, that's where a lot of this, this framework comes from. And, and just, we talked about the, the four part life portfolio pursuits, places, people, and health. If you're, if you're struggling to plan that out for yourself, start there, start, just map it out, those four things. Draw, draw a, you know, a t chart, you know, on a piece of paper if you need to. And just, and just start to fill out all the things that you want to include in your retirement.

Speaker 1 (00:55:54):

Using those as a framework that's kind of your exoskeleton. And then you start filling it in people, excuse me, pursuits, places, people and health. And on the places part, I wanna share another resource that I just spoke with a client about. And that is, if, if you truly do have an open canvas on where you could retire to, there's a great tool on marketwatch.com and it's got a list of questions and things that you can prioritize and say that are important to you, including climate and all sorts of different things, cost of living activities. And you can fill out your top five must haves and your top five nice to haves, and it will literally give you the top 10 counties in the United States. Or you could pick a certain state you want, and it will give you the top 10 counties in that state where it matches most closely with what you said was important to you.

Speaker 1 (00:56:43):

So it's a really neat tool. I'll include that in the show notes as well. And just, just to kind of give one final thought, and then Scott, I'll kick it over to you for your final thoughts. But the, the, uh, authors, one of the authors of designing your life, Dave Evans, was, he's doing a podcast and he shared a story of when he was trying to explain this methodology on a, on a morning show, he only had seven minutes to explain this. Um, and the producer said, you need to explain it in 30 seconds or less. And he's looking, he's a Stanford professor with an engineering background. So he, he said, that's, that's impossible. It's not gonna happen. They said, well, you're not gonna be on the air then <laugh>. So he came up with this 10 word, uh, this, this framework, this 10 word methodology that explains designing your life.

Speaker 1 (00:57:32):

And he broke it down as get curious, talk to people, try stuff and share your story. Get curious, talk to people, try stuff and share your story. And I just wanna encourage people out there, the, I think all of those things, you gotta start thinking about it, you know, talk to other people, to, to learn more about it and then try it and, and then share it and, and do it again. Because f the word I always come back to is fulfillment. And all of these things when you retire, I've said it before, your money is not the most important thing. It's got you, you know, you know that. And share the same thing, like you said, it, it doesn't matter. None of this matters if you can, can enjoy it. Um, and if you're not just spending, it doesn't mean enjoying it. Just spending it doesn't mean enjoying it. You have to apply your resources to things that actually mean something to you if you want, if you're gonna expect to get any fulfillment out of it. So that's, get curious. Talk to people, try stuff and share your story. Keep keep that in mind. And I hope to have more conversations about this. But Scott, I I wanna kick it over to you for your final thoughts on this issue. What do you wanna leave listeners with on this topic of designing your retirement life?

Speaker 2 (00:58:46):

Well, first off, I love the 10 words because it's incredibly simple. Yeah. And I think we live in a world where people tend to overanalyze and overcomplicate decision making, right? Yeah. So too often, um, people don't understand this, but when you don't make a decision, you've actually made a decision. You've decided not to decide. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So use those 10 words, apply 'em to your life. Think outside the box. And I'll, I'll end with this. And you've heard me say this a few times, Joe, but I've witnessed people over the past 30 plus years spend more time, dedicate more resources to planning a seven day or a 14 day vacation than they will planning the potential 25 to 30 years of their retirement.

Speaker 1 (00:59:47):

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:59:47):

So think about that. It's a little bit ironic that we as human beings think in that, in that way, but it's true. So keep it simple. Think outside the box. Try stuff, talk to people, share your stories.

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):

That's good. Well, thanks Scott, for your time and joining me today on, on this discussion. Sure. Always love, love having you and having these, these topics, you have so many good stories and experiences, it's good for folks to hear. So if you're still with us, thank you for listening to this episode. Please come back, uh, next time and listen again. We've got lots of things and we are open to your suggestions. If you want to submit a topic, uh, you can email that to me at joe@carsonarea.com. You can go to Spotify, apple, uh, podcast. You can go to carsonallaria.com and watch our past shows, listen to past resources, and please, if, if you are still listening and you found this helpful, please share, share the podcast with your friends, family, and people that you think might be interested in listening. With that, we hope to see all of you next time. Thanks again for listening to The Retirement Power Hour, where we help listeners invest weer and retire better. Take care.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):

See you.